This material has been prepared to accompany the book "Searching and Researching on the Internet and the World Wide Web, Third Edition" (ISBN 1887902716) by Ernest Ackermann and Karen Hartman, and published by Franklin, Beedle and Associates, Incorporated, Wilsonville OR, ©2002. No part of this may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system, or transcribed without permission of the publisher.

Internet discussion Groups

 
Essentials 

These comments make more sense if we have a real example to work with. Here we'll use the list

List name: PHOTO-L
Administrative address: listproc@csuohio.edu
List address: PHOTO-L@csuohio.edu
  
     Using the example:   Send e-mail to listproc@csuohio.edu with the message
                          subscribe PHOTO-L Your Full Name

     For example:         subscribe PHOTO-L Chris Athana
    Using the example: Send e-mail to listproc@csuohio.edu with the message
                       unsubscribe PHOTO-L
        Using the example:      Send e-mail to PHOTO-L@csuohio.edu
 
Tools Available on the World Wide Web to Search for Lists 

Here are some excellent tools on the WWW for finding information about discussion groups. In each of these give a keyword or keyphrase, and the software searches a database of list names, descriptions, and associated addresses. You'll get the information you need (list name, address for joining the list, address of the list, address of the list owner or moderator, etc.) for the appropriate lists.

  1. Catalist, The catalog of LISTSERV lists.
  2. "Publicly Available Mailing Lists," containing names, addresses, and information about lists available through the Internet. The Web page is maintained by Stephanie de Silva.

  3. tile.net/listserv with URL http://tile.net/lists/. Click on the hyperlink Search to search for lists. In this case the search brings back all the information you need to join a list along with hyperlinks that make it easy to subscribe.
 
Some of the Details

All communication within an discussion group is carried on by e-mail. A user joins or subscribes to a group and then shares in the discussions of the group. A message sent to the group is usually broadcast via e-mail to all members of the group. So these discussions are public. There is an exception; some groups are moderated and a message sent to the group is first routed to the person serving as moderator. (The moderator either sends the message on to the group or takes some other action.) Some groups are very large, with thousands of subscribers, and some are very diverse, with members throughout the world. If you subscribe to an active group you can expect many e-mail messages per day. You'll find members at all levels of experience.

Being a member of a discussion group means that you can join in discussions, ask questions, help others with questions, make announcements related to the group, or just see what others are talking about. You don't have to respond to every message; you can use your e-mail system just to read or even ignore some of the discussions. It's usually a good idea just to read messages when you first join a group so you can get an idea of the general tone and level of the discussion. Some folks use the term lurking to describe the behavior of observing the discussions. Lurking is just fine; it may be exactly what you want.

When you're ready you can send a message to the group (this is called posting a message), reply to the individual author of a message, or send a reply to the group. Replying to the group means your message goes to everyone on the list.

Discussions in the group should be carried on in a polite and civil manner. Occasionally someone gets upset about what someone else has written and sends a message to the group that insults, scolds, berates, or is downright nasty about the author of the original message. This type of message is called a flame. To keep things from getting out of hand, users sometimes need to be reminded to calm down or tone down their remarks.

Most of the management of a list, tasks like adding new members or subscribers, removing members who choose to leave or unsubscribe from a list, and other tasks, is handled automatically by software (a collection of one or more computer programs) running on the computer that serves as the host system for the list. As a member of a list you usually can retrieve archives or collections of past discussions, get a list of the current members, and ask that the mail of the list be sent to you in one packet, called a digest, at regular intervals instead of getting each message individually. All of these functions or other requests for service are handled by commands you send to an e-mail address, called the administrative address, which passes the command on to the software managing the list. Since these requests are satisfied automatically by a computer program, the requests need to be in a specific form that can be understood by the software.

When you're a member of a list you need to know two addresses, and you need to know when to use them.

1. The address of the list, sometimes called the list address or group address. This is the address you'll use to communicate with the list. When you send e-mail to this address, the mail is delivered to all members of the list.

2. The address to request services from or give commands to the manager of the list. This address is sometimes called the administrative address of the list. Most lists are automatically managed by software, such as Listserv or Listproc, so the commands are executed automatically by software. Some lists are maintained and managed entirely by individuals or groups of users. These services or commands allow you to subscribe, unsubscribe, receive messages in digest form, retrieve a list of members, request archives, etc. This administrative address is the same address you use to join or subscribe to the list.

It's easy to make a mistake and confuse the two. If you send a request to the list that should have gone to the other address, a member of the list will usually remind you of the correct address. If you send a message that's passed on to the managing software but was meant for the members of the list, you'll usually get a reply back indicating the message wasn't in the proper form. 

 
 How to Join a List

In order to join a list you need to send e-mail to the administrative address for the list. The e-mail should contain the word SUBSCRIBE and the name of the list. For most lists you also need to include your full name (first name last name). Here are some discussion lists on the Internet. 

List name:                      BIRDCHAT
Administrative address:         listserv@arizvm1.ccit.arizona.edu 
List address:                   BIRDCHAT@arizvm1.ccit.arizona.edu 
Brief description:              discussions related to birding, birding activities, 
                                and birding experiences. This list deals with wild 
                                birds; please, no messages dealing with pets.
To Join:                        Send e-mail to LISTSERV@arizvm1.ccit.arizona.edu 
                                with the message subscribe BIRDCHAT Your Full Name 
For example:                    subscribe BIRDCHAT Chris Athana 


List name:                      PHOTO-L
Administrative address:         listproc@csuohio.edu 
List address:                   PHOTO-L@csuohio.edu 
Brief description:              Unmoderated open non-commercial discussion of all 
                                aspects of photography.
To join:                        Send e-mail to listproc@csuohio.edu with the message 
                                subscribe PHOTO-L Your Full Name 
For example:                    subscribe PHOTO-L Chris Athana 

List name:                      F-COSTUME
Administrative address:         majordomo@lunch.asd.sgi.com 
List address:                   F-COSTUME@lunch.asd.sgi.com 
Brief description:              Concentrates on design, motivation and execution 
                                of fantasy costumes.
To join:                        Send e-mail to majordomo@lunch.asd.sgi.com with the message 
                                subscribe F-COSTUME
You're giving a command to some software and the command has to be in a specific form. Also, you don't have to supply your e-mail address. Since you've sent e-mail to the administrative address, your e-mail address is part of the message. The software that manages the list takes your name and address and adds them to the list of members.

What Happens Next?

You ought to receive a response from the software managing the list within a few minutes, hours, or maybe a day or two. You'll get a response saying either you've succeeded in subscribing to the list or you've made some error in the message you sent to the administrative address. If there is some error then look up the address once more and try again.

Let's assume you've succeeded in subscribing to the list and you've received e-mail about the list. In some cases you'll be asked to confirm your request to join or subscribe, but in most cases you'll receive an immediate e-mail message welcoming you to the list. Save the welcome message! It usually contains important information about leaving or unsubscribing from the list and other commands to use to request services from the software that manages the list. It also tells you how to get more information. Once again, SAVE THAT MESSAGE! You'll probably want it and need it sometime in the future. 

 
How to Communicate with and Contribute to the List

Send e-mail to the list address if you want all the members of the list or group to receive it. Don't send e-mail meant for the members of the list to the administrative address. E-mail that's sent to the list address is either sent to all members of the list, or sent to a moderator who may or may not distribute the message to the rest of the group.

One other address you may need is the address of the list owner or moderator. You'll probably get that address with your "welcome to the group" e-mail. Write to the owner or moderator when you have questions about the nature of the list if you think something is wrong with the list or to volunteer to help the moderator. 

 
How to Leave a List

To leave or unsubscribe from a list, send e-mail to the administrative address. The message needs to have the name of the list you want to leave since several lists may be managed by the same software at a site. The name of the list is represented by LIST-NAME below. In most cases, you need to send the e-mail message to leave or unsubscribe from the same Internet address you used to join the list. If you have difficulty leaving a list, write to the list owner or moderator. Remember to unsubscribe or leave by sending e-mail to the administrative address, not the list address.

In the case of Listserv and Listproc, you send the message: unsubscribe LIST-NAME

If Majordomo is being used to manage a list, you may have to include your e-mail address, if you gave it when you joined the list or if you're leaving from a different address. Send either the message: unsubscribe LIST-NAME

or unsubscribe LIST-NAME YOUR-CURRENT-E-MAIL-ADDRESS

Here is how to leave each of the lists mentioned before. We're assuming the Internet address cathana@right.here.edu was used for subscribing or joining the list. 

List name:              BIRDCHAT
Send e-mail to:         listserv@arizvm1.ccit.arizona.edu 
Message:                unsubscribe BIRDCHAT 

List name:              PHOTO-L
Send e-mail to:         listproc@csuohio.edu 
Message:                unsubscribe PHOTO-L 

List name:              F-COSTUME
Send e-mail to:         majordomo@lunch.asd.sgi.com 
Message:                unsubscribe F-COSTUME 
                        or unsubscribe F-COSTUME cathana@right.here.edu
 
Requesting Services from the Software that Manages a List

Lists and discussion groups generally offer a number of services to their members. In some cases all the messages to a list are archived or saved so members can retrieve them at any time. Lists also generally allow a member to specify the way she receives mail from the group, such as one at a time or in digest form. We'll explain some of the services a list provides as well as the commands used to get the services. All the commands are sent by e-mail to the administrative address. That way the commands may be detected by the software that manages the list. Sending a command to the list generally does nothing except to have several members of the list reply with reminders that the commands were sent to the wrong address.

Getting Help and a List of All Commands

Send a simple message: HELP

to the administrative address and you'll receive, again by e-mail, a list of all the commands you can use with the list. This works for any type of software managing a list. Some lists also provide a reference card, really e-mail, that explains all the commands. If the managing software is Listserv send the command: INFO REFCARD

to any system that supports Listserv. From the example in the previous sections you could send that message to listserv@arizvm1.ccit.arizona.edu. Another site is listserv@bitnic.educom.edu.

Getting a List of Subscribers

To find out who else has subscribed to a list or check the name and e-mail address you used to subscribe to a list, send a command to the administrative address. Some lists don't allow their membership to be made public; most lists allow each member to specify whether to make her name and e-mail address available. Table 1 gives the commands to use to get a list of subscribers (if available). Substitute the name of the list for LIST-NAME and send the command to the administrative address. You'll see that almost all will understand the command REVIEW.  
List Type       Command 
Listproc        REVIEW LIST-NAME 
                or RECIPIENTS LIST-NAME 
Listserv        REVIEW LIST-NAME 
Majordomo       WHO LIST-NAME
Table 1 Getting a List of Subscribers

Hiding Your Name from the List of Subscribers

You can keep your name and e-mail address from appearing on the list of subscribers if the list type is Listproc or Listserv. This is similar to having an unlisted telephone number. In Table 2 substitute the specific list name for LIST-NAME and send the command as e-mail to the administrative address for the list.  
List Type       Command 
Listproc        SET LIST-NAME CONCEAL YES
                SET LIST-NAME CONCEAL NO-use this to make your name visible again.
Listserv        SET LIST-NAME CONCEAL
                SET LIST-NAME NOCONCEAL-use this to make your name visible again.
Table 2 Hiding Your Name from the List of Subscribers

Temporarily Suspending Messages

There may be times you want to suspend receiving messages from a list, perhaps times you go on vacation or are away from the Internet for some time. You want to remain a member of the list, but you don't want any mailings. (Of course you can unsubscribe to suspend messages, but then you have to join again to start receiving messages.) You substitute the specific name of the list for LIST-NAME in Table 3 and send the command to the administrative address. This service isn't supported with Majordomo.  
List Type       Command 
Listproc        SET LIST-NAME MAIL POSTPONE
                use SET LIST-NAME MAIL to receive messages again.
Listserv        SET LIST-NAME NOMAIL
                use SET LIST-NAME MAIL to receive messages again.
Table 3. Temporarily Suspending Messages

Switching to Digest Mode

Switching to digest mode means you'll receive messages in a single daily or weekly mailing. Some people prefer this so they can work with messages from a group all at once, instead of receiving several messages during a day. It also helps to identify messages that come from one group. Table 4 shows the command(s) to use with each of the other types of lists. You substitute the name of a specific list for LIST-NAME and send the command by e-mail to the administrative address. 
List Type       Command 
Listproc        SET LIST-NAME MAIL DIGEST
                use SET LIST-NAME MAIL ACK to cancel digest mode.
Listserv        SET LIST-NAME DIGEST
                use SET LIST-NAME MAIL to cancel digest mode.
Majordomo       SUBSCRIBE LIST-NAME-DIGEST
                UNSUBSCRIBE LIST-NAME 
                use SUBSCRIBE LIST-NAME 
                UNSUBSCRIBE LIST-NAME-DIGEST to cancel digest mode.
Table 4. Switching to Digest Mode

Majordomo requires two commands, both included in the same message. The first subscribes to the list in digest mode. The second removes your name as a user to receive the messages as separate mailings.

Getting a List of Archived Files

Many lists are archived, which means that collections of past messages are kept so they can be retrieved by members. Some lists also keep collections of frequently asked questions (with answers) about the topics discussed on the list and other files useful to the group members. To get a list of the names of the files in a group's archives send e-mail containing the command INDEX LIST-NAME

to the administrative address for the list. Substitute the name of a specific list for LIST-NAME. For example, to get the archives for the list F-COSTUME, send the message INDEX F-COSTUME

to majordomo@lunch.asd.sgi.com.

Retrieving a File from the Archives of a List

You can retrieve any of the files in the list's archives by sending a command to the administrative address. The previous section described how to get a list of files; you might see something on the list you'd like to retrieve or someone tells you about a file that's kept in some list's archives.

You either use the command GET or the command SEND to retrieve a file from an archive (depending on the type of software that manages the list). Include the name of the list and the name of the file. Table 5 lists the commands to use for each type of software, and also includes an example. Substitute the specific name of a list for LIST-NAME and the specific name of a file for FILE-NAME. Remember to send your commands to the administrative address for the list. 

List Type:      Listproc
Command:        GET LIST-NAME FILENAME 
Example:        GET PHOTO-L PHOTO-L.Sep-25 

List Type:       Listserv
Command:        GET FILENAME FILE-TYPE LIST-NAME F=MAIL
Example:        GET AOU91 TXT BIRDCHAT F=MAIL 
                Listserv software also requires you to specify the type of the 
                file, FILE-TYPE.  This file type appears in the
                list of files in the archive.

List Type:      Majordomo
Command:        GET LIST-NAME FILENAME 
Example:        GET F-COSTUME TOPICS
Table 5. Retrieving Files
   
How to Find the Names and Addresses of Lists

There are thousands of discussion groups, or mailing lists on the Internet. How do you find lists that match your needs or interests? You're likely to hear about some lists from the folks you correspond with on the Internet; you'll also see lists mentioned if you read Usenet news, or you'll see some mentioned in other things you read.

There are many ways to use the services on the Internet to find the names, addresses, and descriptions of lists. Discussion lists, Listserv, and the other types of lists existed before the Internet became as popular or available as it is today. Also, some of these lists existed on other networks. Over the years a number of groups and individuals have kept "lists of lists." These lists are available on the Internet and you can get any of them through e-mail or other Internet services. The addresses of these collections of lists and the services used to retrieve them are given in the section "Internet Sources of Information of discussion Lists" below. In this section we'll talk about two ways to find the names and address of lists using Internet services: search the names of all Listserv lists by e-mail and use tools available on the World Wide Web to search for lists.

 
Internet Sources of Information of discussion Lists

Several groups or individuals have assembled collections of information about discussion groups, discussion groups, Listserv, and mailing lists. Some of the collections of lists are very large, often too large for an individual to store. But these lists can be searched on the Internet as described above. Also, some of the collections of lists are broken into smaller groups, so it may be feasible for you to retrieve some of these lists.

Before giving sources on the Internet for these lists we'll first discuss two files you might want to retrieve. These files contain documents about using mailing lists or discussion groups and about finding sources of information about mailing lists.

How to Find an Interesting Mailing List," by Arno Wouters, identifies and describes several sources of lists and other information related to discussion groups and mailing lists. The document also contains some information about using Internet services to search for lists. One URL for the document is http://www.webliminal.com/search/arcdocs/wouters.

The document " Discussion Lists: Mailing List Manager Commands," by James Milles contains information about working with discussion lists, interest groups, and mailing lists. The file is available by anonymous FTP and by e-mail. To retrieve the file by e-mail send the message GET MAILSER CMD NETTRAIN F=MAIL to listserv@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu.

Some of other Web pages that deal with this topic are
Some other places you may want to visit
 
Searching and Researching on the Internet and the World Wide Web Learning to Use the Internet and the World Wide Web Internet and Web Essentials
 

This is a Webliminal.com Production. © 2002 Ernest Ackermann
Please send comments/questions to Ernest Ackermann, ernie@paprika.mwc.edu or Karen Hartman khartman@mwc.edu

FROM the fortune list ...

Its all up for grabs all the time.